Without Justice, There Can Be No Peace:
In Conversation with Mary Moore

Interview by Debra Birkinshaw
Board Member, Peace and Justice Center of Sonoma County

I had the privilege of visiting Mary Moore in her home, to conduct an interview in commemoration of the 25th anniversary of the Peace and Justice Center. I walked among her extensive bookshelves and archives, in reverence for all the activism that she has been a part of in Sonoma County for decades-civil rights, the feminist movement, the movement to legalize marijuana, and the nuclear disarmament movement. It is a walk through time, as seen from the point of view of a woman who decries the disparity between how Caucasians and people of color are treated in this world. Here is an excerpt of our conversation.

Debra: Did you have an experience that influenced you to become an activist?

Mary: I had a father was the County Superintendent of Schools in San Luis Obispo and a good solid white liberal so he didn't full my head with a lot of religion or other mind numbing stuff that was the norm in the 50s. (I graduated from HS in '53) But I also had a mother that was very conventional, belonged to the D.A.R. and had very conservative views. I rebelled while still in high school and married when I was 18. But the incident, which really formed my political views, was having my children taken from me by the courts in 1966 over my politics. I had always been affected by the race issues that were just coming to the fore (Brown vs. Bd. of Education) and in the early 60s helped to found the FAIR PLAY COUNCIL in San Luis Obispo. Some of us joined with the local Black church to do outreach re: housing and employment issues.

I was recently divorced with two children and about to enter into my second marriage and have another child in 1962. Long story but suffice to say that both husbands were very bigoted people and when I got serious about my activism they were very threatened and both sued me for child custody. (can go more into this is detail) In 1966 I lost all three children over what was pure racism on the part of the judge as he allowed questions like "Have Negroes ever been in your home in the presence of your children?", "Have Negroes ever been in your house after 9 PM?" etc. By now I had a lot of contacts statewide in the black community and things were heating up on this issue all over the country. I was quite devastated and one of my friends from CORE came up and took me to Los Angeles (Venice) where I got a job and started volunteering at the Compton Community Project which he had started.

I drove to SLO every weekend to see my kids while we worked on an appeal. (another long story) But basically I immersed myself in the Black community as I felt very alienated from my white friends. I learned so much from this immersion and found my voice but this was probably the single most experience that has driven me over the years.

Debra: Tell me about the first action you took on your path toward becoming an activist.

Mary: Helping to found the FAIR PLAY COUNCIL in San Luis Obispo in 1961 was the first formal action although I networked a lot before that. A few of us (we were just coming out of the 50s) so there weren't very many people who felt like us, joined with members of the local Black Church to deal with Housing and Employment issues in the Black Community. In 1964 Prop. 14 (Rumsfeld Act) was placed on the Calif. ballot which dealt with protecting the few fair housing laws on the books. I became the office manager for Prop 14 and became totally immersed in this fight. By this time I had three children from 10 years down to 2 from two different fathers. Both of them were very against my involvement. We lost that fight but the decision was eventually overturned by the courts, which is why we have more integrated housing. I also benefited from a lot of networking across the state which helped a lot when I eventually lost my children.

Debra: A number of coalitions formed in Sonoma County prior to the birth of the Peace Center. Tell me about your role with SONOMoreAtomics in those early days.

Mary: We were part of the statewide ABALONE ALLIANCE that took on nukes. First Diablo Canyon, then Ranch Seco as well as Livermore Labs and Vandenburg AFB. My first arrest was in 1978 at Diablo Canyon. I moved up here in 1974 with my third husband Fred, a black man (never did go back to the white community) who had been recruited to teach at SSU. They were big into Affirmative Action in those days and were very up front about wanting a black face there. I kicked and screamed all the way but eventually fell in love with the beauty, if not the politics. It was real culture shock for both of us when we landed here from Los Angeles where we'd worked closely with the Panthers and other groups and I had been very active organizing C.R. Groups and finding my woman self. U.F.W. was another group we worked with in those days so at least that had an outlet up here. But the main thing going on in those days was the attempt to form a Com. On the Status of Women and it was pretty different than the organizing we'd done down south.

There weren't a lot of formal coalitions but there was a lot of networking and I started some C.R. Groups at the River Queen Women’s Center and worked a lot on personal growth in those days. I did some work bringing some black women into the women's movement up here but when I helped form SONOMore it was all very white. I got involved because they were putting a nuke so close to my hometown of San Luis Obisbo so I started making alliances with the Native community which was a natural alliance because of the Uranium mining. But it was a struggle because the communities were all on parallel tracks hardly ever coming together. In 1981 I worked with Rev. Coffee and others to start the MLK Coalition for his birthday in January so that was probably the first formal coalition that formed up here.”

Debra: I am aware of your extensive role with actions at Bohemian Grove. Tell me more.

Mary: In 1980 there was a state wide network of anti nuclear activists called the ABALONE ALLIANCE. This network formed from the demonstrations beginning in 1977 aimed at keeping the Diablo Canyon Nuke from going on line. The affiliate group in Sonoma County called SONOMoreAtomics formed in 1978 for a large blockade in San Luis Obispo county, where almost 500 people were arrested with thousands of others doing support. Meanwhile some folks in the Sonoma County group had known about the mysterious Bohemian Grove in Monte Rio that held an annual two-week retreat every July. We learned that these were men representing the elite of the financial, corporate, military and governmental circles of this country. We had obtained a membership list the year before and decided to do some research to see who was profiting from the Nuclear industry.

While many of us had joined in this direct action network to expose the dangers of nuclear power and weapons we felt that this movement was very narrow, white and middle class and not very aware of the many issues of social justice that some of us had been involved with for years. Bohemian Grove seemed like the perfect place to make the connections about the many fragmented single issues that we faced. The more research we did the more we realized that no matter your issue of peace, social justice or the environment, there was someone at the top making a profit from it. We created some great research in those early years and reached out to the many groups across America. By 1983 we were a coalition of 72 groups. On the local scene our annual protests included early Earth First!, Gray Panthers, Puerto Rican sovereignty, Native American drummers, War Tax Resistors, Abortion Rights, Central American policy, Human Rights, women’s equality as well as peace and anti nukers. The Grove protests over thirty years have provided an opportunity for serious coalition building on a local as well as a national level. Angela Davis, Cecil Williams, Delores Huerta, Bill Wahpepah and Francis Moore Lappe have been just some of the featured speakers. The Grove has helped to educate millions of Americans about the connections between all our issues of peace, social justice and a clean environment. The last thing these [military/corporate] men want is attention and that’s just fine with us, as the story went national several times.” We were fortunate on the first year we protested (1980) to get media coverage from both PARADE MAGAZINE and MOTHER JONES and over the years the Bohos were exposed in DER SPIEGAL, FORTUNE, SPY MAGAZINE. VANITY FAIR and NEW YORK TIMES as well as regional and local print, radio and TV pieces.The Grove has helped to educate millions of Americans about the connections between all our issues of peace, social justice and a clean environment. That was not their intention as the last thing these men want is attention and that¹s just fine with us.

Debra: How did the word "Justice" come to be added as part of the name of the center?

Mary: This is kind of a sore point with me because it seemed so obvious to some of us that JUSTICE should be included when the PEACE NETWORK and SONOMore joined forces to start the center on Pacific Ave. There had always been some tension between these two groups because of differing styles. By then a lot of us had been arrested many times and some of the Peace people thought we were too radical. We had even merged our newsletters (NUKE NOTES/SOLIDARIDAD) with theirs even though we didn't have a lot of say over what is was called. I would have liked the word Justice to be in that too. By 1984 we shared space with the PEACE NETWORK and I was also part of the RAINBOW COALITION that was just starting. I think it was that year that Michael Harris and I went to a meeting and formally proposed to change the name for the center. Having a black man there with me made some of them nervous. There were those that resisted and the only reason they gave us was that they would have to change their stationary. I remember that meeting well because even though I knew there were differences in outlook, it seemed like such a no-brainer. But after almost a year we prevailed and I got Lenny Weinstein (sign painter out on the river) to donate two signs that still hang on the PC.

Debra: I would like to know more about the extensive archives you have been collecting and organizing.

Mary: I spend a lot of current time on this and sometimes wonder why. But about ten years ago Gaye LeBaron (our basis of unity is we were both born in
1935 in small towns and somewhat understand each other) hooked me up with the Bancroft Library in Berkeley. I agreed to donate all my stuff to them which helped me to focus on getting it together. It's a huge job.

Debra: I am in awe about the collection of books, articles and memorabilia you have amassed -your home truly is a museum, and it brings back memories for me.”I would like to know about your radio show on KBBF. Title, day, time it is offered, and the issues you address.

Mary: In 1990 a few friends and I started talking about doing a multi cultural woman's program on KBBF because it was pretty male dominated in its programming. Fortunately Maria Fincher became the general manager soon after so four of us (two white women, a black woman and a Latina) approached her and soon after we were the HARD CORE FEM LIZARDS with our own logo and theme (Lilian Allen's Revolutionary Tea Party) and pretty much an open format. We did our first program in '92 and traded weeks so we each had about one show a month. We did interviews and progressive music and in those days we did it in English as they needed more bilingual programming. We've gone through many incarnations and one of us died--Charla Greene and others have moved on. I left the collective last year after 16 years but can do a program anytime I want so its the best of both worlds for me. The old programs were on Monday nights from 7 to 8 but for the past ten years they've been on Saturday afternoons from 1 to 2. We're still the only program at the station that deals with women’s issues, but they like us because it looks good with FCC and funding etc.

Debra: How do you maintain the passion and energy to continue your seemingly tireless work?

Mary: Probably like so many people, it keeps me sane. (Some might question that.) To do nothing would drive me crazy. The finest people I've met have been in the struggle as well as some of the biggest a-holes. There is opportunism and personal agendas galore on the left--always has been. And there are so many differing styles and ideologies that create conflict. I'm glad that finally there seems to be some effort toward creating a collective to deal with hard feelings between activists. It is very overdue and sorely needed as is the individual motivation to work things out instead of trashing and hurting each other. The recent arguments over Van Jones are just the latest example. For me, this is the hardest part of activism. The easy part is actually seeing results after hanging in on a long and hard project. None of us can do it alone. I work now with a smaller network of like-minded people who already share my values, as opposed to trying to change the minds of those who don't. It's less stressful and more productive and that helps a lot in hanging in on the issues.

Debra: What else would you like the Peace and Justice community know about?

Mary: I guess I'd like people to know about how and why we started the SONOMA COUNTY FREE PRESS back in 1987. As I said before several of us were involved in starting the PEACE PRESS when SONOMoreAtomics/Solidaridad (about Central America issues) merged with the Peace Network paper. At that time we were not successful getting the word Justice into it but I still contributed my regular column GRANMA NUDGE to it even though I wasn't happy about that. I figured somewhere down the line we could always change to include it. In 1986 I wrote my regular column about the police raid in Cazadero when they came in helicopters in full military gear to arrest six activists who lived in those hills. I had been very involved in the civil liberties aspect of the pot issue (way before medicinal) and knew these people well. Most of the Santa Rosa based "peace" people didn't and they were adamant that it didn't belong in their paper as it would alienate people. A lot of the more radical crowd strongly disagreed and several (including Judi Bari who had drawn my GN logo) wrote letters but to no avail. Someone came up to me and gave me $1000 to start our own paper so our first issue was in the spring on 1987 and we had a regular column on pot issues.

This is just another example of cultural differences within the movement and to me falls into that diversity problem. We have to be able to include all kinds of progressive people as well as those who don't know they're "progressive" but are victims of this capitalist system. That's why now I concentrate on prison and police abuse issues. I think it's great that the P.C. says on it's answering machine that they accept calls from prison. I wonder though if it is mostly war resisters that are welcome or are all calls like those from regular prisons and death row also welcome.

Debra: The Peace and Justice Center of Sonoma County is evolving under new leadership. What is your hope-your vision-for the future of the center?

Mary: I think the best thing that the center has to offer is the archives of the past thirty years of activism in Sonoma County. We need that central focus for our history as well as the more practical reasons having to do with meeting space. I appreciate the opportunity to give perhaps another perspective of that history because there were many personal struggles during those thirty years and there are lessons to be learned from them. The struggles need to be preserved and understood as well as the victories. It will come as no surprise that my hope for the center is to be more sensitive to WHY it may not be a welcoming place for some people. I remember one instance during the time that Nancy Ovallie was director (on Pacific Ave.) She was eating pizza and a homeless person came by and she offered him food. Someone on the board at that time heard about it and it got her in trouble.

She was eventually let go after she put up a poster of the Mexican Revolutionary Pancho Villa who was holding a gun. I'm no fan of guns either but the peace movement needs to be open to even the folks that make middle class white people uncomfortable. And it isn't just a matter of welcoming a person of color (if their behavior is OK!) It's important for white liberals to live their politics which means having diversity in their own lives, families and circles--not just who they work with in the outside world. I think that is the only way we'll ever get over this disconnect around race and class.  The other thing I'd like the PC to do is be aware of the many different communities in this county besides Santa Rosa. Part of the struggles in the past thirty years has been Santa Rosa based people not knowing or understanding the culture of places like the River and Cazadero.

Debra: Are there young activists that you are mentoring who will continue this important work?

Mary: I have four grandchildren ages 14 to 31 who lost their mom (my daughter) four years ago to cancer. So I'm kind of their only parent figure and I like hanging out with them and their many friends. The four young women (Camellia Patino Gannon, Sandra Valencia, Molly Goss and Amy Contardi) who form the Voces de Mujeres collective at KBBF have been doing a great job of taking over an important part of my activism. There are other young people like Brian Romanoff (of 9/11 Truth; working with the Bohemian Grove Protest now), that I've spent a lot of time with recently who seem to appreciate it. And my grand kids from L.A. Are very important to me. Yes, I love working with young people and seeing them come into their own.